Running Time: 23:14
As inscrutable as he was influential, Thomas Jefferson casts a mighty shadow on American history. In this lecture, Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Joseph J. Ellis explores Jefferson’s political ideology — his preference for an agrarian nation and a weak national government, his feelings about democracy, his insistence on the separation of church and state, and belief in individual rights — and suggests that as the United States emerges from the twentieth century, it may be moving toward a more Jeffersonian ideal of limited government and the primacy of the individual.
Directions: Post at least 2 responses to the podcast considering the following questions. Does Jefferson's ambivalence toward democracy resonate in twenty-first century America? Is Jefferson's ideology still relevant in an increasingly urban nation?
Tuesday, September 22, 2009
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23 comments:
The question of whether Jefferson’s ambivalence toward democracy still exists in twenty-first century America is one without a simple answer. It is highly unlikely that anyone would openly suggest voting be limited by anything such as possession of property. On the flip side there is sufficient evidence within our history, even recently, to suggest as Jefferson did that democracy is the surrender of the public interest to popular opinion. Jefferson’s view that consolidation of political power was bad led to democracy as the best option. However, even democracy leads to some consolidation of said power. It is evident through a quick glance at the daily news that people within the nation feel the government wields too much power too ineffectively, supporting Jefferson’s ideals.
I believe that many of Jefferson’s ideals are no longer valid in today’s world. Clearly due to urbanization Jefferson’s vision of a rural agrarian society is not to be realized. The Jeffersonian ideas against the consolidation of political power are loudly supported, this being visible through various protests against the government. As mentioned in the lecture, Jeffersonian ideas are now more aligned with conservatism than liberalism, and it is these conservatives that voice their opinions against government involvement in economics and other affairs. The lecture also mentions that Jeffersonian ideas had been suppressed by half a century of national emergencies, but are now beginning to resurface. In my opinion it is too soon for these antigovernment ideas to come out. The government must retain power as the entire world finds itself in the midst of a recession. Further, our status as in a state of war calls for government to have some sort of power. Should these two factors end, Jeffersonian ideas retain their uselessness. With a globalized economy, private companies can no longer be relied on for regulation, as only government can wield that kind of power.
Steve makes some excellent observations regarding Jefferson as well as connections to present politics. However, I would argue that Jefferson’s arguments for an agrarian society are more on the romantic - even religious - farmers being the “chosen people.” Practical no – it continues an economic relationship by choice, resembling the mercantile system, which depleted the valuable recourses from the American colonies. He envisions industrial cities polluting the purity of the United States.
I don't think that his ideology would be applied in today's society. The majority of our nation is industrialized. Our nation has increasingly moved from an agrarian lifestyle, and being self sufficient by growing our own food. Our nation now imports much more than we export and it could be said that our goods don't hold much value against other nations. Many of the farmers and farming communities in our nation are having increasing economic difficulty. It gets harder to support themselves on an agrarian lifestyle. Our nation has moved from farming to industrialization. His idea that our nation should be agrarian and support it self that way isn't applicable now. I believe that if our nation stopped being urbanized and we tried to become an agrarian society we would fail. In this day we wouldn't be able to support our selves financially without industry.
I think in some ways his ambivalence does in some ways resonate today. I think his fear that the government would gain to much control is a common worry among Americans today. His realization that some things would have to be sacrificed for a greater cause is also evident today. However today I would say that it is generally accepted that everyone should have the chance to vote regardless of economic or social standing.
I think in some ways that Jefferson's ambivalence towards democracy does and does not still reasonate in twenty-first centtry America. I think it does still reasonate today by the separation of the church and state still is in affect today. I also believe that suspicion of power in far away places still exists today. I believe that his ambivalence towards democracy doesn't exist today because he believed that people should have property to vote and that ordinary American people should hold not be able to public office.
Jefferson's ideology in my opinion is not still relevant in an increasingly urban nation. I think this because of his belief in an agrarian society does not exist today nor does a nation of independent farmers. Today our society is highly industrialized. Also the fact that he believed that ordinary Americans should not be able to hold public office is clearly not true today. He believed that these people were barbarians. On the upside, yet some of his ideals are still relevant today, for example the Bill of Rights. Also his words on equality, rights, freedom and liberty are still brought up today.
I believe that Jefferson's ambivalence still exists in twenty-first century America could be seen both ways as it is still here and also is not still here. Voting in America now a days is not limited to having land. Also in present day people fear that government could gain too much power and become even more corrupt. I also believe it isn't in present day because we are industrialized (most places). Also now a day pretty much every one has the right to vote over the age of 18 can vote regardless of economic or political status
I think in some ways Jefferson's ambivalence toward democracy still resonates in twenty-first century America and in some ways it does not resonates in twenty-first America. Jefferson's fear of the government taking over the country is still a great concern and fear today for example the health care plan Obama wants to pass is a fear and a concern for many Ameicans in that it will lead to the government in having the ability to over take many other aspects of Americans lives. The total seperation of church and state still existed today also. Jefferson's views that people who own land should be the only people allowed to vote are far from the same today in that all people are allowed to vote regardless of social or economic status. Also his belief that ordinary people should not be able to hold public offices are not the same beliefs today because today anyone is allowed to or encouarged to hold public offices.
I don't think that Jefferson's ideology is still relevant in an increasingly urban nation. His ideology that only people who own land should be able to vote is not the same ideology today in that anyone is allowed to vote regardless of economic or social status. Today we are greatly industrialized from the time when Jefferson was alive and continue to be industrializing rapidly and therefore we have moved far from Jefferson's ideology of a Agrarian lifestyle. Today we don't support ourselves own our own production of food and we import far more than we export especially from China.
Some of Jefferson’s ambivalence towards democracy still stands today, while some does not. Jefferson believed that the people who held land should be the only ones able to vote. Now, everyone over the age of 18, regardless of their social status, are able to vote for government officials. On the other hand, his idea of separating church and state still stands today.
Today, we live in a highly industrialized society. Relating Jefferson’s ideology to our increasingly urban nation would not be very relevant. With an agrarian lifestyle intact today, it would be extremely difficult to support ourselves because we are now so urbanized. We cannot apply his ideas about this to today’s society because we have moved so far from his original idea.
I believe that Jefferson's ambivalence definitely appealed to his time period. He lived in an age where farming was already the most common way of life. Most people were barbaric in the sense of having little to no education. I do believe that these uneducated farmers should not have been able to run our country. On the flip side, this contradicts the natural born rights of liberty, justice, and the pursuit of happiness. Everyone should be able to vote, and to have a say in how our country is run.
I also think that Jefferson's ambivalence toward democracy is a bit impracticable today. Its been said that our country couldn't survive without industry and thats true. We are not self sufficient, and even if we could be, we rely too much on the rest of the world. I do also feel that more people now are qualified to run our country. Our education system is amazing. We all have so much opportunity to become educated.
The Jeffersonian ambivalence towards democracy in the twenty-first century can be described as weak. A person can now vote no matter their race, gender, education, or whether or not they hold land. Although American culture subsists on the fact that our government does not have complete control over us, I believe that in our era of war and economic instability, we are moving away from Jefferson's idea of democracy. As seen during WWII and the Great Depression, a more consolidated government is needed to protect and heal our country in times such as these.
Jefferson's ideology is not relevant at all. Our economy is not agrarian nor is it completely self-sufficient. As Lauren stated, we import more than we export. Our economy is interdependent on many other economies of the world. We are rely on Middle Eastern oil and countless goods shipped from Asia. If we were to have farming as our main source of income at this point, out economy would collapse.
I believe that Jefferson's ambivalence is decreasing in America as time goes on and we become more urbanized. It is also evident that it is decreasing because more people are able to vote. There are somethings though that keeps it around like for example the threat of government gaining power.
I believe that this question has no direct answer and that parts support that his ambivalence still exists but other aspects of his ambivalence do not. The parts that still exist in 21st century America are his idea of separation of church and state. Also his anti-federalist belief that the central government should have limited power and to much will cause issues has similar thought processes in today's society. Many believe that the government has to much power or that they are abusing said power. Some aspects that aren't still existent in today's world is voting requirements. This is mainly due to the movement away from agrarian culture to a more industrial/urban one.
Jefferson's ideals about American society are for the most part not existant anymore in our society. The maion reason for this is he believed in a self sufficent agrarian society with a favorable balance of trade. However, nowadays, we are increasingly urbanized with industrialization and definitely not self sufficient. We also have an unfavorable balance of trade as we import much more then we export
I believe that in some ways Jefferson’s ambivalence towards democracy does still resonate in twenty-first century America and in some ways it does not. Jefferson’s ideas such as the separation of church and state, as well as the fear he had of a single authority taking over the American government are still common today. I agree with Ashley that Obama’s health care plan is a good example of this. People are afraid that it will eventually allow the government to have more power than it currently holds and it could become very controlling. The views that Jefferson had of voting differ from present day America. He believed that those who owned land should not have the right to vote and that the common people should not be able to hold office as a government official. This is contrary to the present day American government because all adults are encouraged to vote and entitled to hold office.
I think that Jefferson’s ideologies are not very relevant in an increasingly urban nation, such as present day America. Most of this country is industrialized and heavily relies upon incomes that come from these industries, not agriculture. Also his views about holding office and voting are not still active today. Although, I agree with Michelle that some of his ideologies are still relevant today. Freedoms, rights, equality and the Bill of Rights are all important to this country today and Americans live based on these ideologies.
Many American citizens feel that the government has to much power and to much control. It is in that sense that Jefferson’s ambivalence towards democracy still resonates today. However, in today’s world, Jefferson’s belief, that only white landowning males should be allowed to vote, no longer applies. Today any citizen, of any race, male or female, over the age of eighteen had the right to vote.
Jefferson’s ideology is increasingly irrelevant in today’s urban society. Jefferson dreamed of a mainly agrarian society in which the nation was mainly rural. Jefferson’s beliefs were based on last amounts of land available in the west. According to US census, the availability of land in the west ended in 1890. Between 1890 and 1920 the United States switched from a mainly agrarian society to an industrial one. And finally, according to the US census the United States became more urban than rural in 1920. Also Jefferson’s ideals were made before the influences of, Darwin, Einstein, Picasso and many more. This meant that much of modern thinking would seem alien to Jefferson. All of these elements contribute to the fact that Jefferson’s ideology is less and less relevant in today’s world.
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